APLA Membership

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APLA Membership

Post by Bignuggs on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 4:47 pm

Probably wrong time of year to be asking questions as everyone is in holiday mode.
but I had to ask. so here are the questions I sent to APLA.

1. what is the current total membership of APLA.
2. how many of the members are full time professional prospectors and lease holders.
3. how many are just detectorists.

Now you are probably wondering why I have asked these questions. Unfortunately you will have to keep wondering until I get the answer.
I have a reason for asking.
Call me a shite stirrer if you like, as an APLA member, I think I have a right to know.

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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Wedgetail on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 6:16 pm

The APLA Secretary is away on the road, on hols, at present. Even then, I don't think they'll be able to give you any reliable figures. I asked a few months ago, informally, and received two diametrically opposed "guesses"!

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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Tkinggold on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 7:04 pm

I reckon stuff all APLA members are actual lease holders, most are grey nomad claim jumpers who join to get the insurance and suppose easier access to leases.

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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Guest on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 7:10 pm

I suppose they would argue the if the leaseholders were out there then there wouldn't b a problem

But I suppose we all cant be in 3 places at once..

yer sure they should know were they r suppose to b ...that's the problem they r usually on the money...

regards
oneday

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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Tkinggold on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 7:20 pm

Spot on Ray, I've had a few of them blame me for not having signs on every track to let them know there claim jumping.

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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Wedgetail on Wed 31 Dec 2014, 8:19 am

I no longer take excuses, I've heard 'em all. They even try and "invent" clauses in The Mining Act!! Don't even think about that with me pal, you'll come off dead set second best.

I will place this capitals,"THERE IS NO EXCUSE THAT WILL SUFFICE WHEN YOU ARE CAUGHT SWINGING A DETECTOR ON SOMEONE'S TENEMENT - NONE!"

It's known as "illegal mining" and no different to stealing gold from a minesite or using a bulldozer when you shouldn't.

I don't care if you're lost - if you were lost you should be trying "get found" not swinging a detector on someone's tenement! If I'm not on my lease that doesn't mean you should be! If you don't know how to use a GPS, find out - that's assuming you can afford to buy one after you've paid the fine.



I let one guy off earlier this year when he openly admitted he was in the wrong. But the others that start trying to blame me and "quote the Act" that allows them to be on my lease, well they just increase the likelihood that I'll take photos, rego numbers, get on the Satphone and they are dobbed in five minutes flat. I actually did phone the Leonora DMP about one gang of Victorians camped on my tenements, but changed my mind about sending the details when I found out they did try and find my camp to come and talk to me.



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Re: APLA Membership

Post by gim on Wed 31 Dec 2014, 4:27 pm

sorry Tkinggold
but I know at least 3 APLA members, that are full time, and many more that are semi full time

Gim
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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Wedgetail on Wed 31 Dec 2014, 8:05 pm

Make that four semis.

I know of about a dozen others that are and a whole heap more that would join if they felt APLA represented them. The perception is that APLA has a big majority of and hence a bias towards recreational operators. It's always been a difficult to walk that thin line between hobbyists and pros. At present the hobby guys are getting the oil.

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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Bignuggs on Wed 31 Dec 2014, 8:35 pm

Wedgetail wrote:Make that four semis.

I know of about a dozen others that are and a whole heap more that would join if they felt APLA represented them. The perception is that APLA has a big majority of and hence a bias towards recreational operators. It's always been a difficult to walk that thin line between hobbyists and pros. At present the hobby guys are getting the oil.

that's a big statement Les. I think we need the figures from APLA to see what is what before one side gets branded.

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Re: APLA Membership

Post by homer08 on Thu 01 Jan 2015, 11:04 am

If any fellow members tells you they are not getting the newsletter then tell them to email sec@apla.com.au (That's Bill O'Connor) with their membership details such as name and membership number and their new email address and it will be corrected.

A lot of whats been mentioned here was discussed at the annual general meeting in Ora Banda. Which was well attended by full timers, lease holders, seasoned prospectors,and newbies like myself.
The executive is also made up of these type of people.( hard working and voluntary)
Cheers




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Re: APLA Membership

Post by toad on Thu 01 Jan 2015, 11:28 am

Seems to me that if some lease holders want to be better represented by APLA then they should pay their money and join up.  I mean, isn't that the whole bloody idea?  The more that join up the bigger voice they have?

Maybe the majority then could be whinging damn lease holders instead of claim jumping grey nomads affraid
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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Wedgetail on Thu 01 Jan 2015, 2:54 pm

Bignuggs wrote:
Wedgetail wrote:Make that four semis.

I know of about a dozen others that are and a whole heap more that would join if they felt APLA represented them. The perception is that APLA has a big majority of and hence a bias towards recreational operators. It's always been a difficult to walk that thin line between hobbyists and pros. At present the hobby guys are getting the oil.

that's a big statement Les.  I think we need the figures from APLA to see what is what before one side gets branded.

BN,

I was an "insider" until recently. I know the rough figures. They are well in favour of recreationals. The organisation is run by recreationals, who despite their best efforts and hard work, don't have an in depth understanding of The Mining Act, tenement ownership and operation or the constant barrage of problems that pros & semi-pros face. As I said before if one doesn't know the Act, then one cannot know the problem, if one doesn't know the problem, then one cannot argue against or fix the problem. I know this whole APLA members subject very well BN. I've known it since 1994. No need to wait AFAIC.

I could say more, but not here.

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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Wedgetail on Thu 01 Jan 2015, 3:27 pm

toad wrote:Seems to me that if some lease holders want to be better represented by APLA then they should pay their money and join up.  I mean, isn't that the whole bloody idea?  The more that join up the bigger voice they have?

Maybe the majority then could be whinging damn lease holders instead of claim jumping grey nomads  affraid

Not enough leaseholders to outweigh the huge numbers of grey nomads when it's considered that they arrive here in winter like a locust plague from every state in Australia. Some pro leaseholders are actually considering joining The Chamber of Mines or The Association Of Mining and Exploration Companies (AMEC). Having dealt across the table with such organisations, they are heavyweight and have a lot of political clout. Think Twiggy Forrest, BHP, Rio Tinto, Anglo-Gold Ashanti, St Barbara Mining, Newcrest and those many junior exploration companies that "hold all that ground and you never see any work done",,,,,,,,, and so on.

In the past, pro-leaseholders in the past have never sided with the big boys. They too were often excluded from ground. But now they feel the biggest threat to their businesses is the new metal detectors such as the GPX 5000. Thus they are now seeing recreational operators as a bigger threat than the big companies. Added to which, these days, professional small operators are doing deals with companies that they could never even dream about 10 years ago.

But think about it,,,,,,,,,,,,,small professional operators join sides with organisations that have far more clout than the recreational operator,,,,,,,,,,,,,who's gonna win and who's gonna lose?

C'mon guys wake up!! QK;

Wedgetail


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Re: APLA Membership

Post by boobook on Thu 01 Jan 2015, 5:10 pm

Did someone say "the Cats back"? cheers cheers
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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Guest on Thu 01 Jan 2015, 6:03 pm

Does this mean Grey Nomads should not be APLA members, or do we all have to be full time with the detector to satisfy everyone?
I seem to recall that it was not long ago a thread encouraging, everyone to join APLA, did I just misunderstand? 

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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Guest on Thu 01 Jan 2015, 6:13 pm

APLA is there for everyone who cares to join, grey white or black it does not discriminate, some of us are trying to make prospecting a more accessible parameter for those who care to swing a detector.

regards
oneday

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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Guest on Thu 01 Jan 2015, 6:15 pm

Cheers Ray

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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Flying kiwi on Thu 01 Jan 2015, 7:28 pm

The cat is back!! Good on ya les
What grinds my gears is that SPLs and Es can't co-exist in reality they have nothing to do with each other every time I go to peg one got to wait a year for the E to be granted then another year for them to scratch their balls and think about it then I wip in and peg my massive 10ha block only to go through another 6 months + of BS to get it approved because I'm gunna adversely effect their exploration efforts yea right as we all know how full on that is!! Win that battle and ifs off to native title yay!! At least dmp are in your corner on that one...

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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Guest on Thu 01 Jan 2015, 8:41 pm

your lucky tom
It took me 2 years of negotiating in the Wardens court with a mining company and their legal team--god knows how much they spent on fees but in all sincerity I wont do a tribute agreement again on there terms --never again--
It will be on my terms and I bet they will like what I have to contribute

now they are nit picking and no big deal--they forget I can just go back in there and peg an M or a P or another SPL. Sure we will end up in the Wardens court but that's the way it has to be.

Les may be able to tell me the legality of what I intend to do ..

regards
oneday


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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Nightjar on Thu 01 Jan 2015, 9:24 pm

Wedgetail wrote: But now they feel the biggest threat to their businesses is the new metal detectors such as the GPX 5000. Thus they are now seeing recreational operators as a bigger threat than the big companies.

Bilbo, What planet are you on, GPX-5000 is a threat to a Mining Company?scratch
We all know there are leases that have a covering of gold that is accessible with a metal detectors, the return amount per/1000+ hectare may only cover the cost of a days fuel for earth moving equipment. This same half metre of top soil the metal detector operators access is mullock to miners who use it for revegetation.
This mere pittance to them is a gold mine in enjoyment for the recreational prospector.
The gold mining towns open their arms to the annual influx of prospectors, remember the days when the Meekatharra Shire negotiated with Ross Atkins to lift his "No Go" on his leases so recreational prospectors could again frequent the town and not pass through.
Why are you so bigoted towards prospectors who as a general rule abide by the Acts and the rules laid down?
Why do all the wrong doers have your leases in their GPS?
Get a life man, mow your lawns three times a week.








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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Wedgetail on Fri 02 Jan 2015, 10:47 am

You really love picking an argument with me dontcha! I wind you up so much that you don't read what I write. You just like to come out swinging  - without thinking. Yo just see red when you see me eh!

I didn't say the GPX 5000 was a threat to companies. Read it ALL again.

Here, I’ll do it for you: "In the past, pro-leaseholders in the past have never sided with the big boys. They too were often excluded from ground. But now they feel the biggest threat to their businesses is the new metal detectors such as the GPX 5000. Thus they are now seeing recreational operators as a bigger threat than the big companies"

The thread was talking about small leaseholding operators at the time. Recreational operators with a 5000 are now considered a serious threat to small leaseholders – but more on that later. Small operators rely on alluvial to make a quid. Recent testing by respected operators in Kal and a scientist from the Kal School of Mines reveals that GPX5000 will find 55% of all nuggets on a patch up to an ounce in weight and down to a depth of 500mm.

Read that carefully and consider the implications. Then consider the next finding - of the remaining 45% a "scrape and detect" operation will only recover 30% of the gold remaining in the patch. Why? Because it's only getting the smaller stuff that can't be heard at depth by a detector from the original ground surface.

The final remaining 15% won’t be recovered as it’s too small to be sensed by a detector. So from the testing and compiling of data in this test, it can be seen that a recreational operator is now regarded as a serious threat to small leaseholders.

Anyone wanting to read the whole testing report can see it the APLA newsletter a couple of months back. There's some excellent stuff in that report about coils, depths and target size.

Furthermore, with your experience at Wilson’s Patch, you’d know that the ground around Leonora is not deep. It may look deep but as a general rule if you get at least 500mm of dirt before you hit the greenstone hard stuff, you’re doing well. So when that lot is put together, it’s not a pretty picture. From 13 patches last year I hit the greenstone between 400 and 600mm. We even had a powered auger rig across some of the leases and we couldn’t get more depth than that on any of them. These went from Murrin to The Specking Patch to Pennyweight Point to Jasper Hill. At Wilsons Patch, you’d be struggling to get 200mm unless you’re down at the southern creek.

There are small ops with dozers in Leonora, Cue and some areas of Kal that are giving up on pushing. It’s no longer profitable. As an old hand at all this, you might like to consider and compare what’s happening today with what happened years ago with the old VLF machines. Those old VLFs got the easy gold near the top but didn’t go deep as could the SD2000 and so on. So, in came the small leaseholder with his dozer and got the remaining gold at depths. These days the pulse induction machines are going where the dozer went. They are doing what a dozer once did – without the expense of holding a lease or the environmental issues and AHS problems. Good in some respects, but not so good in others.

I met a well known Kal bloke this year out near Yundamindera that no longer does “scrape and detect”. His dozer has been in storage for three years, he’s dropped all his leases and now just goes detecting. He gets more gold, it seems, has no hassles, get’s heaps of ground to go on and reckons the 4500 and the 5000 is as good as any dozer down to 600 mm. I agree and so do several small operators around Leonora.

NJ, I know first- hand of a group of APLA members and non-members in Kal that are professional operators who openly refused to support a recreational operator when he was denied his rights given to him with his Miners Right. They supported the pastoral leaseholder that threw the prospector off the Pending lease on Minara Station. Does that surprise you, because it shocked the socks off me! But why did it happen? What’s the logic? Simple, the professionals are p*ssed off with so many recreationals being out there that they will take any stance they can to reduce the numbers or discourage them. Even to almost blasphemous stage of denial of The Miners Right.

,,,,,,,,and that last paragraph, ladies and gentlemen is a major reason why I quit APLA. It’s a difficult tightrope to walk but I do try to walk it in supporting both “pros and reccies”.

So, NJ, as usual, just like you did before on your own forum, you went off half-cocked and never really read or thought about the context of the thread or other peoples knowledge and awareness. So I must apologise to the other members that I had to make it so long just so you would understand it all.

BTW – I ripped the front lawn out before Christmas and put Native Plants in. Happy New Year and I hope you find heaps.

Wedgetail


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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Wedgetail on Fri 02 Jan 2015, 11:05 am

NJ,

I know the Ross Atkin's story in detail. Atkins only lifted the ban on his ground because he wanted to get onto the Shire Council as a councillor. Why? Because Atkins wanted to put in a bypass road to the east, around the Bluebird Mine south of Meeka, which he owned, so that he could blow up the existing Great Northern Highway. He could then exploit the softer ore as feedstock for his crushing mill at Bluebird. The ore on the north side of the road was too much for his crusher and he was going broke - which he eventually did.

You can still see the gravel bypass road to the east of the Bluebird pit that was to be the start of the new bitumen road.

The WA Govt wouldn't let Atkins remove the existing road even if he built a bypass at his expense - unless the Shire Council agreed unanimously. That's the real reason he wanted to get on the council and not some cock & bull story about Ross Atkin's philanthropy and concern for Meekatharra.

A driller on Bluebird Mine once demanded to be allowed to stay in Meekatharra caravan park 'cos he didn't like staying in a donga onsite. Some employees and the management also reckoned it'd be good for Meeka as well. Atkin's reply?

"Son, pack yer bags, yer fired. I don't give a Phhuk about Meekatharra or it's flaming caravan park"

Ross Atkins was a grade A tosser that never had a charitable bone in his body and Meekatharra was happy to see the back of him - as was I.

Wedgetail


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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Guest on Fri 02 Jan 2015, 11:06 am

u should have planted a few fruit trees like Mangoes-oranges etc--stuff the native trees --theres plenty in the bush.

Plus its a sight to see some of those women bending over picking up fruit.. spank

regards
oneday

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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Wedgetail on Fri 02 Jan 2015, 11:14 am

oneday wrote:u should have planted a few fruit trees like Mangoes-oranges etc--stuff the native trees --theres plenty in the bush.

Plus its a sight to see some of those women bending over picking up fruit.. spank

regards
oneday

I can get mango seeds (kernels,nuts?) to sprout but I can't get them to grow. Must be the salt air and wind here.

BTW - they must be bloody tall women to be bending over picking fruit from a mango tree!!!

Wedgetail


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Re: APLA Membership

Post by Tkinggold on Fri 02 Jan 2015, 12:39 pm

The old days of pushing a bit of dirt around with a dozer and picking up potatoes is long gone. You need to get back to how the old timers did it, most couldn't give a shite about alluvial and were only interested in reefs. Why? Because they knew there is heaps more gold in the rock then in the dirt.
I still detect most mornings for a bit of fun but by far most of my gold comes from crushing rock. I don't really understand why more people don't do it. You can setup a good small processing plant for between $30-$50k, heaps cheaper then a dozer guzzling fuel.
And you get the added bonus of not having to continually move and peg new ground.

Tkinggold


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