AGM Batteries

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AGM Batteries

Post by Bignuggs on Tue 20 Jan 2015, 5:28 pm

Here's something that has me puzzled.
If you start with a new AGM battery, discharge it a few times and recharge, do they get better.
It seems like it, as the one battery I've been using is lasting longer after each discharge/recharge.
The battery is only about 4 months old and I've been using it a fair bit to run the fridge.

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by mark409 on Tue 20 Jan 2015, 6:06 pm

Driving the fridge in the lounge room kwdf . You will probably find, the house temperature has a lot to do with it.
If it has been cooler the fridge and battery are more efficient. consequently its lasting longer
sounds good to me ,,,I,m also a good liar.
Mark 409

Wots AGM confused
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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Guest on Tue 20 Jan 2015, 6:10 pm

A GOOD MATE Battery I think

regards
oneday

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Bignuggs on Tue 20 Jan 2015, 6:38 pm

as I've said in a previous post, no aircon and the inside temp has been up near the mid thirties.
So temperature wise, I can't see it making a huge difference.
anyway, I digress (that's a big word  Razz  ) as Ray says, it's a "A Good Mate" battery.
it has been going longer since last charge. it's been going since 9am last Saturday, holding 12.4V and approx 98% charge according to the digital read out.  don't ya just love digital read outs   Very Happy    buggered if I know.
But the aircon is now going on, the test is over.         kwdf

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Inhere on Wed 21 Jan 2015, 7:02 pm

Has anyone had a charger crap itself when charging one of those AGM batteries?

The things blow up until they are round like a soccer ball, when they overcharge.

Wish I had taken a photo. affraid
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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Bignuggs on Thu 22 Jan 2015, 12:42 pm

I've been using a Projecta 8amp procharger on 100ah batteries.
I haven't had any problems yet but it might still be coming.
It'll be interesting to see if anyone else has had problems.

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Inhere on Thu 22 Jan 2015, 6:59 pm

That should be ok, I was using a 20A 3 stage so called smart charger, The caps tend to dry out in fairly quick time and crap out, overcharging the battery.

I use one of the 8A C Tec units now everyone told me they were the best. Well they should be, they are expensive enough but they get
hot as hell even on a warm day, so I keep a close watch on them now.
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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by mark409 on Thu 22 Jan 2015, 7:42 pm

Bignuggs wrote:as I've said in a previous post, no aircon and the inside temp has been up near the mid thirties.
So temperature wise, I can't see it making a huge difference.
anyway, I digress (that's a big word  Razz  ) as Ray says, it's a "A Good Mate" battery.
it has been going longer since last charge. it's been going since 9am last Saturday, holding 12.4V and approx 98% charge according to the digital read out.  don't ya just love digital read outs   Very Happy    buggered if I know.
But the aircon is now going on, the test is over.         kwdf

A good mate .Keeps the beer cold.   Absorbed glass mat.. scratch (AGM sounds better)
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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Bignuggs on Tue 27 Jan 2015, 7:31 pm

Another question. I'm using a Projecta 8amp Procharger to recharge 100ah AGM batteries.
On 240V, it's taking about a good 10 to 12 hours to put a full charge in from about a low of 11.5V
I let them get to that as according to the readouts the battery is still ok but getting low.
I keep an eye on the charge readouts before I disconnect the battery.
So here's the problem, if I'm using 120amp solar panels with 8amp controller that can connect straight to the battery, how long will it take to charge the battery.
Would I be better off getting a generator and running a bigger amp battery charger.

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by hoolahoopa on Tue 27 Jan 2015, 8:37 pm

bignuggs i reckon you meant 120w solar panels witha 8 amp controller. if thats the case it will take approx the same time as your pro charger, but more than likely longer because you dont get the full power from the solar panels for 10 -12 hrs because there is not normally that amount of good sunshine in the day.
someone with more technical ability will probably have a better explanation but thats what i have come to understand anyway.
in my opinion it is still much better and cheaper to go with a good brand genny.
that comment should get the fish comin in.

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Moneybox on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 12:14 am

I run 4 x 100AH Ritar AGM batteries as well as the 2 x N70 lead acid start batteries. The alternator is 24V 50A and the solar panel is 250W 24V. I've had problems with them only lasting a few days before they need the generator and 25A battery charger to charge them up again.

I called Alco Batteries to discuss the problem. I found out that neither the alternator or the solar panel has the ability to fully charge these batteries. The simply cannot charge at a high enough voltage to maintain a full charge.

The result is that when it comes time to replace my batteries I will be going with good quality sealed lead acid batteries. The deep cycle batteries are not worth the extra money and inconvenience.

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Guest on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 7:14 am

Phil try a 1200cca seal acid battery--yep the big one u see in dump trucks--works for me.
maybe your problem is the size of your fridge--a 120L fridge is what I reckon is good enough for 2 people and the larger ones have a lot of extra space to cool for nothing.

regards
oneday

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Moneybox on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 8:30 am

oneday wrote:Phil try a 1200cca seal acid battery--yep the big one u see in dump trucks--works for me.
maybe your problem is the size of your fridge--a 120L fridge is what I reckon is good enough for 2 people and the larger ones have a lot of extra space to cool for nothing.

regards
oneday

Yes Ray I recon this is a better battery choice but for now we're stuck with what we've got. We went for the 200L upright fridge freezer just for convenience. The upright looses all its air every time you open it but everything is more easily accessible.

The main problem I have with the AGM batteries is the high voltage they need to reach and maintain a full charge. They need something like 29.7V and neither the alternator or the solar panel is capable of that. The solar panel will actually get there in the end if the batteries are nearly full, you have a very bright but not too hot day and there's only a very light current draw.

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Bignuggs on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 5:42 pm

I've got 120w solar panels (not120amp) but they can be connected to the battery while it is running the fridge.
So my guess is, if the solar panels are connected to the battery while the battery is running the fridge, there shouldn't be a problem.
Or is there ??

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by hoolahoopa on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 6:19 pm

Mate it's all to do with your fridges draw (amps) and how often it cycles. So if your solar say puts out only 5 amps over the hour but your fridge draws 6 amps you lose 1 amp from the battery. Now even if your battery says 100 amp hrs you should only work on half of that to be nice to the battery, otherwise it will not hold its full charge for long. There is a lot more to it obviously but that is it in a round about way.

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Bignuggs on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 7:12 pm

All I can say is, the fridge running on batteries has been doing well in 30c+ temps.
It's the recharging of the 100ah AGM's that is the worry.
I can only guess if the solar panels can be connected direct to the battery while charging ( according to the manufacturerer) and it can run the fridge at the same time, then I should be right.
buggered if I know.

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Bignuggs on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 6:10 pm

It has been very interesting the last few days, a fully charged battery has only been lasting about 48 hours in the current warm weather we are having.
the fridge is still set at 0c and it's staying there. it does work a lot, I've been watching the read out. but so it should to keep things cold. the good thing is, the low voltage alarm on the fridge works well, ya can't miss it.
Next test will be to connect the solar panels to a battery to see what sort of charge I can get in a full day of sunshine.
but, I think the battery problem might be with the 8amp charger not really putting a full charge in even when it indicates full charge.


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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Guest on Thu 29 Jan 2015, 9:07 pm

don't forget that most fridges get used during winter..less draw from the fridge on the battery..
u could leave yah cans out side in the cold night and late afternoons...

anybody would think Cliff has a drinking problem...fridge in the lounge with alarms and wires hanging out of it all hooked up to the puter to give him all the test results..be worth a fortune to Engle by the time u finish.. lol!

regards
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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by travelergold on Fri 30 Jan 2015, 8:53 am

We have still got our agm battery going strong after 4 plus years. Has only ever had an 80w bp solar panel on it with bp bp supplied matchbox size regulator in back of panel. Runs 40l engel fridge and lighting and charges 4500 battery when detecting. (From 3 to 6mth a year). Rest of year just sits on solar panel keeping charged. TG

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Bignuggs on Fri 30 Jan 2015, 10:19 am

It's a never ending saga lol!
So I've contacted the Projecta mob about the 8amp/240v charger. It appears according to what they tell me, the 8amp charger is too small and they now suggest using the 21amp charger to get a full charge into the 100ah batteries.
which brings me back to the 120w solar panels which has a standard 8amp regulator. I'm now waiting on an answer about that.
Bugger me, is the bar open yet

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Guest on Fri 30 Jan 2015, 1:01 pm

it is but the pub has no beer...

regards
oneday

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by martinjsto on Fri 30 Jan 2015, 1:52 pm

so you really need more than 120 watts panel Cliff. you will be lucky to get 5 to 7 amps out of it during winter and its only for 6 or 7 hrs where the fridge is running 24hrs. you will add to the battery but not enough to maintain charge, you really need bigger solar panels to be a stand alone system. bigger batteries will only give you a few more hrs/days running but they have to be charged, its a balancing act and its no good having too much solar and no where to store the energy (cost) or having too big a battery bank and you cant charge them. one 160 watt panel does me but i run a gas fridge so its only for lighting and charging phones, detector batteries and the laptop. i am setting up sat TV for the missus on the longer trips so i may need more storage/panels then.
this site has some asking questions that are in a similar situation as you
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cheers

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by Bignuggs on Fri 30 Jan 2015, 4:19 pm

After an email chat today with one of the Projecta/Narva people it seems the batteries are getting charged and I don't need a bigger amp 240V charger.
I explained what they were being used for, if the charger is reading "full charge" that's it.  I'm not entirely convinced though.
So here's what they say after my explanation.
If the 8amp charger is showing full charge, then the max charge in the battery is 13 to 13.3V or more like 13.1v
The readout on the ArkPak battery box did show near 14.4V but once the charger goes into float mode, I have a suspicion it actually discharges the battery to a certain degree.  I'm buggered if I know but the voltage drops down to the range of 13 to 13.3V
I put the multimeter on the battery and got 13.3v
It seems that is normal.  I don't know but if that is normal, I gotta go with it.
The only good thing to come out of the discussion was, the standard 8amp regulator on the solar panels can be changed to a bigger unit.
Deet, gotta job for ya   Very Happy     I wouldn't have a clue how to change the regulator.

cheers    kwdf

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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by cruiser1 on Fri 30 Jan 2015, 5:29 pm

Hi Cliff.While you are waiting for Deits reply here is a few pics of my set up when I changed controllers.All I did was remove wires from original controller and put fittings on same to enable me to have panel some distance away from vehicle with twenty foot of 6mm twin core cable.I had to put "Y" connectors on end of 6mm cable to enable this,then other end goes directly onto new solar controller which is placed as close to battery as possible to be more efficient.All fittings were readily available from ebay.Electronics are not really my forte but hope it helps.
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I am sure if there is anything wrong Deit will come to the rescue.

Cheers

Phil
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Re: AGM Batteries

Post by hoolahoopa on Fri 30 Jan 2015, 8:33 pm

no point changing your regulator if your panels aren't going to supply enough power (amps) to run it bignuggs. like has been said 120w solar panels at best will give you somewhere between 5-7 maybe 8 amps. you will be wasting money.
if you are in perth you should go have a chat with the guys at the 12 volt shop (in welshpool from memory) and explain to them what you are trying to achieve.
they have been there done that if you know what i mean.

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