redarc duel batteries going flat

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redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by martinjsto on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 8:40 am

hi, here is one for the techno minded. I have a duel battery system from red arc, primary battery is a few yrs old now but seems to work ok and a brand new battery as the secondary. I have had flat batteries for 2 days now, go to start her in the morning and very little cranking for a couple of revolutions then nothing. have i got them wired wrong, shouldn't the backup battery start you when your primary is flat with duel batteries. I thought if the primary goes flat the second is isolated from it and should not go dead as well but both mine are going flat together. the alternator is good putting 14.3v into charge and the batteries seem to charge once running but both are flat again by next morning.
i purchased a new primary battery but dont want to fit it if i have an issue or is this normal behaviour for the redarc if the primary is stuffed and it is draining the secondary.

this is the way i wired them with no switch wired in,

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cheers

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by Nanjim on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 9:00 am

Don't know the answer to your prob....
I was under the impression ....
That if the main battery went flat ...
Then the second would still start the vehicle ....
As the solenoid would isolate the two .....

Cheers Nanjim

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by martinjsto on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 9:04 am

Thanks Nanjim. Thats what I thought also.

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by Guest on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 10:16 am

sure your smart switch solenoid is working properly?
I installed a redarc smart switch solenoid between both batteries and works a treat. if the main battery goes dead as a dodo then u just get under the bonnet and activate the 2nd battery..works every time.

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oneday

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by Inhere on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 11:01 am

Yeah, the solenoid is cactus pooptus and must be leaking to earth, the power has to go somewhere.  

I don't use a redarc, just a normal solenoid hooked up to the ignition.
Turn the ignition on the solenoid pulls in and completes the circuit, turn off the ignition
and  power to the solenoid is lost so it breaks the circuit and isolates the battery.


Last edited by Inhere on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 7:53 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : spelling, pissed!)
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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by Flying kiwi on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 12:02 pm

Martin

could be wrong but i think replacing the buggered bat should fix it.

when you try linking the two the bad bat will be sucking the amps out of your good one as they try ballance out. leaving not enough to crank

cheers Tom

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by Jackthehound on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 2:24 pm

G'day Martin, I have one hooked up in my cruiser, got an auto electrician to wire it in. As far as I know the main battery will not go flat as the main battery draws down to a certain level and then switches over to the second battery to draw power from, I can actually hear it click over when it switches. This second battery runs my lights and engel when out camping, had it in over 2 years now and no problems at all. This is not helping with your problem much but I would think the unit is faulty or you have wired it up wrong

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by martinjsto on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 3:21 pm

the black earth wire is wired to the two small terminals underneath the main connectors on the red arc unit not direct to earth as on the image above, its the one coming out at the base next to the blue override wire. is that a fuse? all the images show it wired direct to earth so i will try that.

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by Banjo on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 4:18 pm

Martin, the black earth wire definitely should be earthed to a clean body earth.
The small block houses the LED etc only, not a fuse.
If the LED is illuminated the batteries should be linked, mine usually stays on till the voltage drops away to the preset, by adding the push button you can manually activate the solenoid which is handy especially say first thing in the morning when the voltages have normalised and the LED is off.

EDIT, oh and what size wire/cable have you used ?
Obviously this will impact on how you can use the solenoid.

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by martinjsto on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 5:55 pm

cheers banjo, im using 8mm cable and keep the length as short as possible, rewired and new battery in so I will see how it goes. cheers

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by Banjo on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 6:03 pm

Ok so with the 8mm you won't be able to use the override function, i should of asked before crapping on about that, i was lucky to have access to cable at work so just went with that and hooked up the override.

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by Nightjar on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 7:43 pm

Flying kiwi wrote:Martin

could be wrong but i think replacing the buggered bat should fix it.

when you try linking the two the bad bat will be sucking the amps out of your good one as they try ballance out. leaving not enough to crank

cheers Tom

Martin, Agree with Tom and feel sure now you have installed the second new battery your problems will be over.
Not being familiar with the Redarc, however if this step fails feel sure your solenoid is not deactivating and is powered over night draining your batteries?
Have been using my setup like Inhere has for past 20 years, a single good quality solenoid (gold contacts) separating starting & Aux battery by ignition.
When the key is turned to "auxiliary" all the "hangers on" are powered from the aux battery only ie: radio, HF radio, UHF radio, GPS, laptop charge etc.
When the key is turned to "start" the solenoid is activated and both batteries are activated for starting and remain connected to charge by the alternator until the engine is shut down.
There is a caution using this method, additional wiring using an isolation switch should be connected from aux battery to the solenoid activation points.
Got caught out one year leaving head lights on and when I returned to vehicle and turned the key there was nothing. Further checking proved the aux battery was fully charged.
Why wouldn't the vehicle start when I turned the key?
Rolling Eyes The f'n solenoid was only connected to main battery. Embarassed
Using a short jumper lead from aux to the solonoid activation point the solenoid kicked in, both batteries were in the starting circuit and was mobile again.
When back home hard wired the extra circuit.





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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by Banjo on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 8:15 pm

The continuous duty solenoids are great and like you guy's iv'e used them for years linking the batteries/solenoid with cable, but there is one flaw with them if using cable, if you have a main start battery on the way out it can mask it.

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by martinjsto on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 8:27 pm

thanks for the help with this guys,
the solenoid was being powered continuously because i had it wired incorrectly the primary was old and stuffed and sucking dry the good secondary hence no start. i like the Inhere setup and will go with that.
I used the wire supplied with the kit banjo. but i will upgrade it, what do you recommend? batteries are within 300mm of each other.

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by Banjo on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 9:21 pm

Martin, if you are wanting to use the aux to assist the start battery when cranking i would use 2 B&S.

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by Moneybox on Mon 16 Feb 2015, 8:04 pm

I'm with Inhere. I've tried a few of these fancy electronic battery systems but each time i've ended up using a 100A continuous relay/solenoid. When I turn the ignition on I hear it go "Click" and I know all my batteries are connected. When I turn the ignition off and back to accessories I know my start batteries are isolated.

I don't understand the electronic circuitry and I don't trust it.

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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by toad on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 10:08 am

I use a Ctek D250S Dual DC charger connected to my second battery and it takes the input from the solar panel (250w/17.8amp) on the roof of my Navara as well as the feed from the alternator. The second battery is fitted in a tray and connects to the system by a 50amp Anderson plug. Should the crank battery fail I would have to take the battery out and connect up with my jumper leads but this would take about a minute or less. So far, no problems and out bush I run two Waecos, one as a freezer, one as a beer fridge, LED camp lights, 4500 charger, 2300 charger, shower plus charge my phone and tablet as required.
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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by NuggieDreamer on Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:22 am

Dunno about Auto transfer relays between batteries. if you have one bad battery the system may do some wierd stuff like dragging down the other one when you don't want it to when the voltage drops from aux load or if there is a short under the bonnet. Some relays can latch (self power) if so wired under vibration. I like the idea of the push button interlock on the pilot latching circuit. Solid State Relays that can handle 300A starting current (if you can afford them are the go).  

toad wrote:The second battery is fitted in a tray and connects to the system by a 50amp Anderson plug.

Love the simplicity of your setup Toad,

simular to mine, but I use (2) 12V Marine Lead Acids as Auxillary Batts paralleled for more capacity sitting in a crate with 50A andersons tee'd off - one connected to 50A Circuit Breaker hanging off Main Battery, another to the Solar Panel (Camping) / Battery Charger (Home trickle charge)
Then if the main battery goes Jumper Leads to the rescue from the twin pair 1200CCA 12V or 600CCA 24V on standby baby, no need to call for RAC to travel >250km for a jump start and the boats batteries stay good in Winter.
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Re: redarc duel batteries going flat

Post by toad on Wed 18 Feb 2015, 11:56 am

Yep NuggieDreamer. I reckon that's the way to go. My battery tray has a second Anderson plug which allows me to connect another deep cycle battery in parallel if I need the extra storage. I have a 30amp circuit breaker and was going to put a 240v trickle charger in the system but so far I just haven't needed it.

I made up a box with 4 cigarette outlets, 2 x 32v outlets and 1 x USB power outlet. Works great.
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