Bogene Settings ?

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Bogene Settings ?

Post by wdgreg on Fri 08 Jul 2016, 2:50 pm

Hi all, A few years ago a guy put up a post, regarding Bogene's settings for the GPX 5000 does anyone recall the settings, in detail and did they work well.
Greg

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by CrazyPete on Fri 08 Jul 2016, 3:18 pm

G'day greg

Mate the bogene settings basically involve running with no threshold at all.

Some have had success on larger deeper nuggets where the ground is too hot or chattery to run in normal type settings "ie" with threshold hum,  these settings were used mainly on the older SD &GP models as they didn't handle hot ground as well as the GPX 's
I don't think you'd have any advantage running Bogene on a GPX, infact I'd say you would miss heaps of gold.

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by wdgreg on Fri 08 Jul 2016, 4:18 pm

Thanks Pete,
I wasn't sure mate, but that has sorted it for me.

cheers
Greg

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by Nightjar on Fri 08 Jul 2016, 5:26 pm

Hi Pete, Recently mentioned this to UTBM but I thought it was Gemini who used that method.


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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by CrazyPete on Fri 08 Jul 2016, 8:44 pm

G'day peter

Mate I only know it from old days in Vic back when the 2100 was out.
I tried it but thought it was a load of crap, was missing smaller gold.

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by Nightjar on Sat 09 Jul 2016, 7:31 am

Agreed Pete, I tried it and soon reverted to having a threshold.
Also I now recall it was at one of our Meets at Ora Banda that I was introduced to it. Bogene, Gemini & Jon were there.
The old 2100, what a machine, if it got noisy I used to flick it to channel 1 with great results.

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by CrazyPete on Sat 09 Jul 2016, 11:55 am

Yeah channel 1 was a bewdy for the smaller stuff and channel 2 for the larger coils on deep ground.

I recon I found more gold with my 2100 in 1998 than all my other models combined,  mind you there was plenty to be found back then :)

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by Flouro on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 8:36 am

Hi Wdgreg,

Don't believe what these guys are telling you, I used bogene's settings for this trip which was for seven weeks and we amassed 100grams in highly mineralised and wet areas which had been thrashed

The beauty of using Bogene's settings is there is very little noise to put up with just target signals that are not lost in all the chatter,the benefits were being able to work wet ground and very noisy ground

I use a GPX 4000M with external booster with the gain flat out, threshold either off or to 1/3rd on which made no difference and the booster flat out which gave a slight hum but it was not ground hum just machine hum

The disadvantage of using bogene's settings is there is no reading of the ground thru the threshold noise that you normally get, in other words you could tell if a nugget was in amongst all the ironstone buy the different sounds but using bogenes settings all you get is target...dig me

I have not tried it on the ones where you get only a break in the threshold in lateritic ground, which means I may miss some of these but I found all shapes and sizes , one was 17.5gr down around 15" in wet ground and the smallest was .17gr using my 14" camo coil

The missus uses the GPX5000 and utilises bogenes settings on hot and wet ground to advantage but only using the built in booster that the GPX5000 has, what it does is get rid of the pesky hot rocks and bad wet ground noises, but she can still run with a 17 gain

It is just another weapon in your arsenal to use if it becomes too difficult to detect

Just one other thing is , if I get a hot rock or wet ground noise using bogene's settings I can press the little green button and they disappear, not so with the 5000

Cheers, Ron Sherri and Yoda

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by cruiser1 on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 8:53 am

Thanks for the info Ron.I am heading off Tuesday and if the ground is still damp from the recent rains I will certainly try it on the 5k.

cheers

Phil
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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by BIG GEM on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 9:18 am

Hi Ron, in using the Bogene, is there any change to the Stablizer setting? Cheers Bob

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by Flouro on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 10:10 am

Hi All,

Cheers Phil, hope it works for you

Big Gem,Sherri says she has the stabiliser at 10 with the gain at 17 and will adjust the stab always as the last thing

Cheers, Ron Sherri and Yoda

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by BIG GEM on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 10:41 am

Thanks Ron & Sherri, much appreciated. Joan will try it out on next trip. Bob & Joan

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by wdgreg on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 11:08 am

Hi Flouro,
Well first , i would like to thank you for a totally different point of view on these settings.It appears you are right into using the special points found by Bogene. Hands on and results are what count.I might say that the cameo elite coil 14" with these settings would be very interesting in hot ground almost unable to detect.The mind conjures up many places of the years to apply
the almost secret settings to. Large nuggets at depth with the correct combo,might make the 5000 come back from second place at the moment. The Gain at 20 was working for one fellow on another forum, in extremely hot ground,unable to detect previously ,except using Bogene settings.
Time will tell with the new coils from coiltek and nugget finder.
Keep me posted .
Greg



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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by IsmaelJ on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 7:51 pm

CrazyPete wrote:Yeah channel 1 was a bewdy for the smaller stuff and channel 2 for the larger coils on deep ground.

I recon I found more gold with my 2100 in 1998 than all my other models combined,  mind you there was plenty to be found back then :)

Yours was one of the detectors with the balance pots positioned incorrectly, channel 1 is the deep larger targets and channel 2 is the small shallower targets. Quite a few 2000/2100 had them assembled with the pots in the opposite positions..

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by IsmaelJ on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 8:00 pm

Just to add fuel to the fire, settings that I used on the 5000 that were given to me worked fantastic on most ground I worked with the 14" Elite coil, settings as follows, Switches set to Deep, Special and fine gold, Stabiliser and Gain both at 20, only change due to hot ground was to drop the gain down to a minimum of 17. I never heard my 4500 or 5000 run more stable and sensitive. Absolutely an eye opener as from the GP's I never ran the switch in deep as it made the detectors warble, complete opposite on the GPX 45 & 5, they ran a lot quieter. I always used a threshold even be it quite low never off completely... One of my last trips it was a lot more stable and quieter on the same ground than the 7000 that 2 of my mates were using. I've actually gone to the 7000 now but hope I don't regret the "Upgrade"... Sad

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by Nightjar on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 8:06 pm

Ismael, I must have had CP's twin 2100, iron pebbly ground, noisy as hell, flick to ch 1 wooopeee!
hmmmmm Maybe there was some deep ones I missed on bedrock 100mm below? Sad

Cheers
Peter

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by IsmaelJ on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 9:41 pm

Hi Peter, channel one will be the quietest channel due to being a long pulse train, that's why we say it is the deep channel. The 2000 and 2100 had a unique system where unless you had the machine open and a scope on it you never knew what channel the detector detected best with as just before the signal goes into the audio section it basically judges which channel is the best signal and switches the other channel off. This is a simplistic version of what happens lol! Looking at it from a technical view channel 1 is a big long pulse and channel 2 is 3 short (4 short on the 2000) of similar overall length as the channel 1 pulse. From that the channel one puts a bigger transmit into the ground but only has a small receive period whereas channel 2's pulses each have a receive period which would add up to more receive time. So overall in theory Channel one could still hear smaller targets due to the larger signal in the ground, but overall channel 2 is better as the time before receiving the target is dramatically reduced and so the eddy current in the target should not have disappeared completely. Hope this makes it a little clearer or maybe just confused everyone more!!!Shocked Just to add to the confusion all receive samples (2 for channel 1 and 6 for channel 2) all add up to being close if not the same amount of sampling time. If anyone still has a 2100 or 2000 though the simplest test is with a sub gram target. If the channel pots are in the right positions you should hear it easily in channel 2 and in channel 1 you may have to scrape the coil with it...

I still think the old 2000 (with mods) is still one of the best detectors once you get good at using it with the noise and distinguishing through the noise whether you have a target. That is the problems with the SD range and why I moved on to the later detectors after mind you 10 or more years! I got my first GP (3500) in 2008/9. Sometimes even though a detector may be fantastic on finding small gold if it is noisy more times than not you will miss the target so a detector that performance is say not as good but is quiet you may well hear the targets you couldn't evaluate properly with the noisier detector, if this makes sense to you?

My 3500 modded in tests against the 4500 beat it hands down on depth but was significantly noisier than the 4500 that is why I upgraded and also tell my customers that if the choice is to mod a 3500 (or any SD/GP) or buy a 4500/5000 I always advise to buy the GPX.... Lastly what a lot of people don't realise is no matter what detector you use if you have confidence in the detector that is probably 90% of prospecting in the bag. As to bogene's settings I have used them but only in salt or extremely hot unworkable ground and was amazed that you could still hear targets but would say you would miss any iffy or those slight threshold changing targets...

This is a timings sample from the 2000 it would be similar to the 2100 but I can't find that one:

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by Nightjar on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 6:33 am

IsmaelJ wrote: I always used a threshold even be it quite low never off completely... Sad

Regarding threshold Ismael,
Using the 4500 with a B&Z booster, do you believe it is advisable to run the threshold flat out on the machine then quieten it down with B&Z control?

Cheers
Peter

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by IsmaelJ on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 1:20 pm

Hi Peter, I would never run any detectors threshold flat out as you will miss any targets that don't have enough signal to make the threshold change. I often used to wonder that on JP's Outback Prospector DVD's on the 3500 he ran the threshold quite high so it was smooth, myself and mates tested this idea and found we were definitely missing small sub grammers and those deep slight signals that barely changed the threshold. There may be a benefit in very noisy ground but I think a just breaking threshold (still constant although maybe a little low in volume) is the best. Anyone I have known that have been full time or experienced prospectors with many years under their belts always run with the threshold as low as possible but constant.
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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by Nightjar on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 4:53 pm

Ismael, I think you missed my point, we do run the threshold at a comfortable low level.
My question was; "Do you believe it is advisable to run the threshold flat out on the machine then quieten it down with B&Z control?"

That is wind the threshold to max on the machine, then lower it too a comfortable level with the B&Z booster knob?


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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by IsmaelJ on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 7:05 pm

Hi Peter I did understand and answered that in the last post, remember that the B&Z Booster is just an amplifier no matter what people call them so you would still be running the detector threshold at a point that is going to mask the signals as previously stated, so just by lowering the volume level is not the same as lowering the threshold level. The threshold is exactly that, a level that a target will enhance the audio to appear to raise in volume (or lower), this is a form of control from the output audio amplifier of the detector, a point that is not off but just at a level to hear a change, so to put an amplifier AFTER the threshold when the threshold is already at maximum is like turning the fuel pump up on a car to deliver more fuel and then trying to reduce it again by restricting the flow out of the exhaust.

What may be and is exactly what I suggest on my old smooth mod on 2200 and GP's is exactly this, turn the threshold down to below what is normal and BOOST it up with an external amplifier, that in my opinion would be the better option... This way you should have a smoother threshold and will hopefully hear any subtle changes in the threshold.

Hope this answers the question. Now a disclaimer Cool I have never even contemplated running the threshold flat out so haven't tried it but from my technical knowledge of what the threshold does I would say there is a bigger chance of losing targets.

Look at the 7000 (and I haven't used mine yet), but going through the different forums I see posts of settings where they are running volume levels high and the threshold on 1??? The threshold regardless of design of detector is the same for a gold-bug all the way to a 7000...


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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by Nightjar on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 8:14 pm

Many thanks Ismael,
This has been a long running discussion over the years and your explanation is a great help next time the matter is raised.

Cheers



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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by IsmaelJ on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 9:01 pm

Nightjar wrote:Many thanks Ismael,
This has been a long running discussion over the years and your explanation is a great help next time the matter is raised.

Cheers



lol Razz I just thought of a better similitude than the fuel situation that is more appropriate, imagine putting a 4" exhaust pipe out from the turbo (or manifold) and then halfway down the length go to a 1" pipe to let the exhaust out... just doesn't make sense...

Anyway enough said...

Peter are you still running the 4500 or have you gone to the 7000?

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by CrazyPete on Tue 12 Jul 2016, 5:54 am

Great explanation Ismael.
There are many out there that are running the threshold at Max on the 2300, as the little speaker icon for the 2300 threshold insinuates that it is actually a volume control and not threshold level control.
Personally I've always run as you explained,  very low threshold and used an audio booster to lift the audible threshold volume to enhance target responses.

Pete

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Re: Bogene Settings ?

Post by Nightjar on Tue 12 Jul 2016, 4:30 pm

I'll second that Pete.
Yes, Ismael still holding the 4500, don't see a change at this stage.



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