two men charged

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two men charged

Post by pilko on Thu 27 Jul 2017, 4:13 pm

Set for a hearing in Leonora on Tuesday...two "prospectors" charged with illegal mining...fair warning...tenement holders are fighting back.

https://thewest.com.au/news/kalgoorlie-miner/two-men-on-illegal-mining-charges-ng-b88548450z

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Re: two men charged

Post by mada on Thu 27 Jul 2017, 5:26 pm

I wonder how much of this goes on, I would say lots. I get sick and tired of the mentality of the modern age. Everyone thinks they can do whatever the hell they want.

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Re: two men charged

Post by Young Simmo on Thu 27 Jul 2017, 8:54 pm

Yes, while my sympathy usually learns towards the ammature hobbyist, "entered an active exploration lease near Leonora held by a mining company on several occasions" tells me these guys went looking for trouble on more than one occasion. I'm glad I aint in their shoes.
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Re: two men charged

Post by Topcat on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 8:00 pm

Further update on events occurring due to the last issue of illegal prospecting, there will be an article posted in the West Australian
in the next few days such as this one listed below where Mining Companies are now hiring security guards to monitor their leases
for illegal prospecting.



This notice has been sent to all APLA members so please pass it on to those members who haven't received it.


Last edited by Topcat on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : wording)

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Re: two men charged

Post by CrazyPete on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 2:30 pm

Thanks for that Ted

I'd say some jail time coming up for em.

Not hard or costly to get ya 40 permits

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Re: two men charged

Post by hoolahoopa on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 4:26 pm

Just my opinion if you get jail for this there is something very wrong with our legal system. A small fine will probably be it going from what happened a few months back to the 3 fellas that got caught with the big nugget out of a kunanalling open pit.

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Re: two men charged

Post by pilko on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 6:29 am

It's not about the fines or records or confiscation of gear...it's about reputation.
A reputation as a gold thief up here is worse is as bad as it gets.

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Re: two men charged

Post by toad on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 9:39 am

I heard $2000 fine with no conviction recorded? Surely not! Rumour is that one of them got at least 6 ounces from his thieving. That sort of result makes it almost worth the risk. No deterrent value in that.....piss poor.
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Re: two men charged

Post by bikeboy on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 9:56 am

From what i have heard it more the Station owner not the mining company that forsced the court action M--t--d--e Station

B B

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Re: two men charged

Post by farm boy on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 12:23 pm

I know rules are rules.....but in someways the system should work better. I believe 21 days to wait until you can prospect not great and opens the door to this type of thing. Perhaps these guys were in town, had a few days to detect, and thought gees cant wait 21 days.

Im not saying what they did was right, but perhaps one should be able to immediately gain access once the 40E is submitted. Perhaps this immediate access attracts a higher fee...$50??. I really don't like the idea of having to plan a detecting trip 3 weeks in advance.

For example, here in WA you can get a fisheries license there and then in the boat to catch certain fish.

one will argue the 21 days is to stop people staying on a tenement all year round, but surely you could restrict someone applying continually eg. have a 21 day cooling off period AFTER the first 40E

In my opinion the system needs tweaking. if this is generally supported I am thinking of approaching APLA with this

FB

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Re: two men charged

Post by Moneybox on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 5:31 pm

farm boy wrote:I know rules are rules.....but in someways the system should work better. I believe 21 days to wait until you can prospect not great and opens the door to this type of thing. Perhaps these guys were in town, had a few days to detect, and thought gees cant wait 21 days.

Im not saying what they did was right, but perhaps one should be able to immediately gain access once the 40E is submitted. Perhaps this immediate access attracts a higher fee...$50??. I really don't like the idea of having to plan a detecting trip 3 weeks in advance.

For example, here in WA you can get a fisheries license there and then in the boat to catch certain fish.

one will argue the 21 days is to stop people staying on a tenement all year round, but surely you could restrict someone applying continually eg. have a 21 day cooling off period AFTER the first 40E

In my opinion the system needs tweaking. if this is generally supported I am thinking of approaching APLA with this

FB

I think the 21 days is to give time for objections from the tenement holder or pastoralist.

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Re: two men charged

Post by Moneybox on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 5:51 pm

toad wrote:I heard $2000 fine with no conviction recorded?  Surely not!  Rumour is that one of them got at least 6 ounces from his thieving.  That sort of result makes it almost worth the risk.  No deterrent value in that.....piss poor.

toad keep in mind that that could have been any one of us at some point. most if not all of us have been prospecting in the wrong spot at some time. We're being a lot more careful these times, getting 40e's, seeking out pending ground, contacting pastoralists and generally trying to do the right thing but it's not always been that way. We attended a DWAG muster and witnessed several more experienced prospectors operating in areas where they shouldn't have been. You might even remember Very Happy

Action needs to be taken to deter people from breaking the rules but if you were caught in the wrong place you might hope for a little leniency Twisted Evil

Of course you realise he wasn't stealing from the lease holder, he was stealing from the WA government pirat

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Re: two men charged

Post by toad on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 7:02 pm

I'm told they were warned off twice and still went back.
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Re: two men charged

Post by farm boy on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 7:21 pm

I dont know if a leaseholder can refuse a 40E. If not then the 21 days is basically irrelevant. I believe one should be able to identify ground that is an exploration tenement...jump online complete the application and pay the $25 and bang is legal to enter the tenement. At the end of the day what is the purpose of a 40E other than to 1. Track who is prospecting on a tenement and 2. Obtain details of what was found

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Re: two men charged

Post by Wedgetail on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 7:53 pm

I copied this from my input on another forum on this topic:-

I was there because I knew one of the prospectors involved was my old nemesis - "T-Man". I faced him prior to the hearing (I was nice to him,,,,) in the office of the Magistrates Court and told him my thoughts such as how much I loved him and worried about his future now his name was, like mine, all over the WA Golfeilds but for different reasons. Then he took a swing at me,,,,,and missed,,,,,in front of a police officer FFS!! Leaseholders in the area reckon he was about due to be caught. His accomplice was a guy from NSW that had recently completed a prospector's course with Goldtalk in Leonora - but used the excuse in court that he didn't know what he was doing and was led into it by "T-Man". Yeah right. Tony Goldtalk will tell you the rules but you ignored 'em.

"T-man" admitted he was an old hand and knew he shouldn't have been there. They both pleaded guilty and mitigated the plea by using a pearler of a remorse excuse,,,,,"we have offered to work for free for the mining company"!!!!!!! FFS - does that mean using a metal detector?? What a hoot that would be! "Work for free and pocket the gold" - as gold thieves often do.

Both were fined $2000.00, had the gold confiscated and got a spent conviction, which means no criminal record. However, they wouldn't want to be caught again 'cos it's $150,000.00 fine next time. The confiscated gold - one nugget was 4 ounces and the other was about 9 ounces. However it is believed they visited the spot several times so they could have found more before they were sprung. The Magistrate and the Prosecution never thought of that possibility. I did as I watched & listened.

They were sprung by the local pastoralists who are now out there legally detecting around the spot on a Section 40e permit along with a million others. The company have now brought in a local contractor to do a "scrape n detect" operation on the spot. So "T-Man" and his mate could have had it all for the cost of a 25 dollar permit and perhaps an SPL on the ground. But they chose to ignore our rules here in WA. Remember this IS Western Australia and the gold is ours under the rules of a Federated Australia. We offer everyone permits and certain rights to find it and keep it. We don't give you the right to steal it from those that have paid the fees and charges for those rights - that's what the magistrate said.

The EL probably now has more sect 40e people on it than the rest of WA combined.!!The guy doing the pushing is very accommodating to interlopers; he'll let you detect as long as you don't object when he flattens your Landcruiser with his D9!

"T-Man" has now left town in the direction of Meekatharra so beware up there. Little old red ute with a green home-made camper back on it and " "T" plates.

I was great day for justice and there's another similar case probably within the next week or two from the Leonora area. It's not a nice place to get caught and with things the way they are right now with pastoralists and leaseholders, the chances are you will get caught. These guys have had enough of prospectors and I have to admit that they have it in for "Eastern Staters". Those are not my words but they are the words of the leaseholders and pastoralists with whom I talk regularly. Remember, these guys prospect for gold as well as herd cows so they have a vested interest in watching their own backyards. So get yer paperwork sorted and have nice time or get caught and ruin your holiday.

Finally, you should be aware that the new head of the Gold Stealing Detection Unit (GSDU) in Perth/Kalgoorlie is a prospector himself so the rules are now being applied thoroughly. This was not the case in previous years where little or no interest was shown in chasing recreational prospectors. Those days are now very much over. I spoke with the new guy a few days ago and there will be more like this if we all don't pull our heads in.

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Re: two men charged

Post by Young Simmo on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 9:05 pm

Back in the 1980s buying a detector and heading out into the bush was a fantastic hobby and pastime. Now you need to be tenement lawyer, a millionair, very lucky, very fast and have a grudge against your money. I think I'll stick to the box of Export under the gum tree in my back yard.
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Re: two men charged

Post by Wedgetail on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 6:50 am

Young Simmo,

You nailed it right there. I know my way around the laws both written and unwritten, and like you I'm getting tired of those laws constantly being increased and the ones that flout them. I'm tired of people that lay false claim to the land, the gold and the Goldfields. After 38 years of prospecting I'm seriously considering selling up my gear and my last two leases. I'm tired of the DMP doing nothing to protect bona-fide prospectors from gold theives & pastoralists. This one here was a breath of fresh air. I'm worn out with the Federal Govts application of the Native Title Act here in WA.

Like you, I just wanna sit home with my grandaughter and have a beer out the back under the peppermint tree. My prospecting days are slowly grinding to the end.

Mind you on the bright side, I know of 4 good patches around Leonora and a nice find well north of that area. But it ain't me that's finding 'em. I'm pushing for grammes as the ounces are avoiding me.

Good luck.

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Re: two men charged

Post by pilbara snapper on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 11:15 am

Very interesting as I met Mr T while I was in Leonora van park and he had some nice gold and seemed to have no trouble finding it........I now know why,he obviously didn't give a stuff who's lease he was on.
The gold squad should hang around the camp kitchen at beer o'clock each night as I was gob smacked at the prospectors that had no understanding of the law and dint give a rats
Regards snapper

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Re: two men charged

Post by Young Simmo on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 11:30 am

Yeh Wedgetail, you mentioned Leonora which is good memories for me. After 3 wasted week-ends up there I found my first piece (a 4 grammer) over the road, opposite Alan Bonds fantasy patch which was fenced off and had a resident caretaker at the time. I used to hire detectors in those days and eventually bought my first Fisher Gold Bug. Minelab hadn't been born then. It's all over for me these days but I remember a million YEEHAAAAAAAS.
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Re: two men charged

Post by pilko on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 3:58 pm

yep Young Simmo...you were either a garret or a whites man....my old man (and so me as well) started with a whites 5000D....a lot more gold back then and a lot less people doing it.

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Re: two men charged

Post by Young Simmo on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 9:06 pm

Yes Pilko we were lucky to get onto the bandwagon at the start and it was a fabulous period of time from 1979 to 1999. We spent a lot of weeks at Kookynie when it was $1 per night per person at the Kookyie pub. I use to tie our hired caravan to the hand rail outside the bar and it was 10 or 12 steps into the bar and lounge with the roaring big fire in the middle of winter. I can't remember the couples name who had the pub but, I remember his wife because she was previously a nurse up in Wyndham in the 1940s when I was a kid going to school up there. We spent a lot of our detecting time about 25 to 35 Kms out amongst the old mining areas east and north east of Kookynie. I better stop there as the memory box is coming alive which is good fun at 77. Your turn.
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Re: two men charged

Post by boobook on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 6:42 am

What irks me is the piss poor penalty handed out, a measly $2000 fine and no conviction recorded. So very similar to the wrist slap given drug dealers, no wonder they re offend.
Fisheries seem to have a better grasp of dealing with lawbreakers, confiscation of all gear and massive fines or custodial sentence. Exactly what was required in this instance, a full no tolerance no excuses result.
Mike
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Re: two men charged

Post by pilko on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 6:54 am

did you know the "mayor of Tampa"???

pilko


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Re: two men charged

Post by Wedgetail on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 11:26 am

Latest update:

Not gone north to Meekatharra as I saw him on the road near Leonora. I'd know that vehicle and that rego anywhere.

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Re: two men charged

Post by Young Simmo on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 4:20 pm

Correct me if I am wrong but, to sum it up, a hand full of people have ruined a fabulous hobby that was enjoyed by 1000s apon 1000s of people. You really have to say the greedy ones won.
Now I will put my ear plugs back in, UGH?
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